Sunday, November 20, 2005
YS Movement 5: L.A.
Chuckie P often jokes about how he tends to some more conservative sides of life, politics, theology, etc. and calls me L.A. - liberal apostate. It is truly a term of endearment as Chuck and I have met every Wednesday for the past two years as accountability partners. So don't take the "label" as anything more than a significant amount of ribbing between friends. We have regular conversations about our different understandings and base this primarily in our friendship.
With that said, Nick and I went to the Late Night Theology Discussion with Tony Jones. It was truly an exercise in humility for me. My greatest struggle was keeping up with all the church fathers and different religious traditions that people discussed. The realization that I know far less than what I think was like a two by four to Tommy Boy's head.
The main idea that I could at least begin to comprehend was that we often refer to theology on the level of second order discourse. Things like talking about a soccer or a car wreck are second order discourse. Things like playing in a soccer or being in a car wreck are first order discourse. Tony said that he is trying to argue that theology is not simply a second level discourse, reflections on the experience of God, but rather a first level discourse, the experience of God as well as its reflection.
Tony himself said few things that reflected his own theological reflections, but rather asked questions to challenge others within the discussion. The only time he spoke up was when someone in the group said their friend came out of a seminar he had led that morning saying this, "I know he didn't say these things, but I know he doesn't believe..." (fill in the blank here, because much was said about what he didn't say and what he really meant.)
I couch this in light of the first two discussions for two reasons:
With that said, Nick and I went to the Late Night Theology Discussion with Tony Jones. It was truly an exercise in humility for me. My greatest struggle was keeping up with all the church fathers and different religious traditions that people discussed. The realization that I know far less than what I think was like a two by four to Tommy Boy's head.
The main idea that I could at least begin to comprehend was that we often refer to theology on the level of second order discourse. Things like talking about a soccer or a car wreck are second order discourse. Things like playing in a soccer or being in a car wreck are first order discourse. Tony said that he is trying to argue that theology is not simply a second level discourse, reflections on the experience of God, but rather a first level discourse, the experience of God as well as its reflection.
Tony himself said few things that reflected his own theological reflections, but rather asked questions to challenge others within the discussion. The only time he spoke up was when someone in the group said their friend came out of a seminar he had led that morning saying this, "I know he didn't say these things, but I know he doesn't believe..." (fill in the blank here, because much was said about what he didn't say and what he really meant.)
I couch this in light of the first two discussions for two reasons:
- I struggle with putting words in peoples' mouths based on what I think their presuppositions are (fundamentalists, democrats, upper-class, homeless). Yet, comments made about anyone and their beliefs should never come from the inferences about what they must have meant, even though they didn't say it.
- These discussions occur best (between anyone) in the context of relationships, where time, space, and commitment to the person and the work of God in them will allow for respect and redemption on all sides.
